Lee Jun-seok: "I Dislike Strange Politicians... Jang Dong-hyeok Is Strange, but from His Perspective, It's Right Not to Step Down as Leader"

[Joo Young-jin's News Briefing]

When quoting this interview, please credit the program "SBS Joo Young-jin's News Briefing." Copyright belongs to SBS.

■ Broadcast: SBS "Joo Young-jin's News Briefing" Monday–Friday (14:00–15:20)
■ Host: Anchor Joo Young-jin
■ Guest: Lee Jun-seok, Leader of the Reform Party
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● Interview with Reform Party Leader Lee Jun-seok

"PPP uses 'Jeong I-han's staged attack' controversy for political offensive."
"Jeong I-han has cut off all contact since the election ended."
"DP's politics of venting anger on the criminal justice system... strongly opposed."
"DP trapped in self-contradiction... they just dislike the prosecution."
"DP keeps creating special prosecutors while claiming they want to abolish the prosecution."
"Will march forward with the Reform Party without wavering."
"Jang Dong-hyeok in a paradoxical position... like a 'Holy Roman Emperor'."
"From Jang Dong-hyeok's perspective, it's right not to step down as leader."
"Han Dong-hoon's victory in Busan... seems he wants to use it as momentum to rejoin the party."
"If Han Dong-hoon wants to rejoin, he needs to stop attacking others."


▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: We have Lee Jun-seok, leader of the Reform Party, with us. Welcome.

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: Hello.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: You apologized after the local elections. You said you were sorry to party members and supporters because the Reform Party did not achieve the desired results. How have you been doing lately?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: Since the election, I have been meeting with the candidates to listen to their feedback and clean things up. But starting last week, the People Power Party (PPP) suddenly began attacking us very aggressively. As the party leader, I felt I needed to point out things that do not align with the facts, so I have been strongly addressing those points. Coincidentally, just before I pointed this out last week, one or two PPP lawmakers were at a public meeting. Thinking they couldn't be heard, they whispered to each other, "We must use this opportunity to prevent the Reform Party from standing back up." Reporters overheard this and called me a lot. Since it appears that political intentions are involved, we decided we must address these matters precisely.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Currently, the former Reform Party candidate for Busan Mayor, Jeong I-han, has been arrested on charges that the so-called terror attack on him was staged. The core issue now is whether the leadership of the Reform Party, including yourself, knew about this beforehand. The police had already investigated and became aware of it in May, even conducting interrogations. Did you know, and did you pretend not to know despite knowing? Isn't this the very question being focused on you, Representative Lee?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: Of course, before the nomination, we had no way of knowing he was this kind of person because his criminal record and background were clean. Even after the nomination, we had no way of realizing this. When this incident occurred around April 27, and immediately after, I understand that an investigation was conducted. It was later revealed that he confessed on May 18. However, we could not sense any signs of this. But as always, after an incident occurs, looking back in hindsight, we can think of certain points where there was strange behavior. For example, on May 19, the day after he reportedly confessed, candidate Jeong I-han cut off all contact with us and went completely into hiding. At that time, since we knew that candidate Jeong I-han had discussed a merger with a PPP official on May 17, just a day prior, I remember we conveyed our position to candidate Park Heong-joon's side that we absolutely opposed any unilateral merger that was not discussed with us. So, while there are fragments of events during the election, we could not have known about this staged attack. Then, the election was on June 4, and we heard he was subjected to a search and seizure on June 4. Even when the search and seizure occurred, campaign officials contacted me saying that a search was underway, but candidate Jeong I-han's lawyers were not sharing the details of the search warrant. So, they said they had difficulty grasping the situation.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Recently, you told reporters that since he was a former PPP aide, someone from the PPP must have said this and that during the merger process, and therefore it is unfair for the PPP to attack us like this. Are you saying this based on clear evidence?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: When we talk about that, candidate Jeong I-han caused a lot of trouble for our leadership throughout the election regarding the merger. Right before the start of the official campaign after we nominated him, as I mentioned, he came forward saying he would merge candidacies. Later, even the day before early voting, he spoke very strongly to us about a merger, sharing very detailed stories. Seeing that, I felt candidate Jeong I-han had his own scenario in mind from the very beginning when he joined the Reform Party and applied for the Busan mayoral nomination. Also, there was someone who was always present when he met with people from candidate Park Heong-joon's side. It became known that he consulted a lot with that person. The reason I ended up answering this is because Representative Joo Jin-woo kept asking us what happened on May 19. May 19 was the day candidate Jeong I-han went into hiding, saying he would merge candidacies. I was in the process of explaining that, and the people he met before going into hiding were the person said to be the number one figure in Park Heong-joon's campaign and a Busan city councilor in Park's campaign. So, shouldn't Representative Joo Jin-woo be the one who needs to know those facts? In fact, Representative Joo Jin-woo was the standing campaign committee chair for Park Heong-joon's campaign. I asked back in that sense: as the standing campaign chair, did he even know what was going on in his own campaign?

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Representative Gwak Kyu-taek, who was here yesterday, is also a lawmaker representing a Busan constituency, right? He said this is an extremely serious matter. He seemed to believe that it must be clearly revealed whether you, the Reform Party, and especially the police, sat on the investigation until after the local elections despite knowing about it. What do you think?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: But I think the police made it clear yesterday. They applied for a warrant, but it was rejected by the prosecution or at another stage, so the warrant was only issued around June 1 or 2, which is why they focused on June 4. If that is not a lie, then the claim by PPP lawmakers that the police did not investigate makes no sense.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: In any case, when you apologized to the public regarding this matter, did that include the part about failing to properly vet the candidate and nominating such a person?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: When former Mayor Park Won-soon passed away, even though I belonged to a different party than his Democratic Party, I said this: while it is truly tragic that Mayor Park passed away in such an unfortunate manner, the question "Why did you nominate such a person?" does not hold up. This is because, as we all remember, Mayor Park did not have any prior criminal record of that nature, and there was no law to filter such things out beforehand. However, after the incident occurred, Democratic Party lawmakers tried to demonize the victim by calling her a "person claiming to be a victim," which was a highly inappropriate action. I have always criticized them by making this distinction. Even now, from the Reform Party's perspective, if we say we will make our nomination process more detailed, we would actually just be making empty promises. It is difficult to filter out these kinds of things. However, when such an incident occurs—and we are currently conducting a fact-finding investigation—we must absolutely not build a defensive logic for candidate Jeong I-han or speak to the hurt public in an evasive way. That is our promise going forward, and we will keep it.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Have you ever heard candidate Jeong I-han frankly admit to it and apologize at the end? Either over the phone or when you met?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: No, I haven't.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Not at all?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: As you well know, after the election ended on June 3, candidate Jeong I-han posted his retirement from politics on social media, and all contact has been cut off since then. It was virtually impossible for us to hear about the progress or anything else from candidate Jeong I-han.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: In any case, many people—in fact, the entire nation—cannot understand why he would stage such an attack. How much could he have thought this would benefit him?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: Since we are still in the process of a fact-finding investigation, I might have an opportunity to gather the details and explain them to the public later. However, when candidate Jeong I-han strongly requested a merger on May 28, he did say something like this: "Now my approval rating is almost similar to the gap between the two main candidates, so I am receiving a lot of pressure from here and there." He then asked if he could do it, though I don't know if using the word "permission" to me is appropriate. I think candidate Jeong I-han's intention behind those words was that he needed to secure a certain level of approval rating to play a leveraging role or act as a casting voter. But as for the details, I believe candidate Jeong I-han must speak for himself before the public someday.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: I agree that candidate Jeong I-han must clearly speak about that part with his own mouth. And earlier, you said on June 18 regarding the incident involving former candidate Jeong I-han, "I apologize to the public and the citizens of Busan. As he was a candidate nominated by the Reform Party, I feel infinite responsibility." Understood. What is the Reform Party's official party line and principle regarding the abolition or retention of the supplementary investigative power, which is currently the hottest issue in our political sphere?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: We strongly oppose the Democratic Party's politics of venting anger on not only the supplementary investigative power but the entire criminal justice system. That is why, while we always say checks and balances are necessary, discussing the abolition of this supplementary investigative power by the police is exposing various problems that can arise when the police close a case. This has been discussed particularly in light of several tragic incidents recently. What the Democratic Party originally claimed was that because the prosecution is too strong, we must also establish the Corruption Investigation Office for High-ranking Officials (CIO) to keep them in check—that was the Democratic Party's logic. But if this happens, the police will become too strong, and if the police hold all the power, who is going to control them? So, the Democratic Party has fallen into a self-contradiction. In the past, they said we needed to add more layers on top of layers to check something, but now they are saying we must unconditionally abolish it. This is literally because they just dislike the prosecution. It is because they have faced difficulties in the past when the prosecution investigated those in power. If the Democratic Party's official line is that they are uncomfortable with investigations targeting those in power, I don't think that is the right attitude for a political party. So, all their logic has broken down now. They say it is a bad system because the prosecution handles both investigation and indictment, yet they abuse special prosecutors. A special prosecution is a place that conducts investigations close to ordered investigations if a political party pushes for it. Didn't they create four or five special prosecutions under this administration? They say the prosecution shouldn't exist, but they want to get their hands on something similar to the prosecution. I think that is the Democratic Party's true intention.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: This part will require public opinion gathering through future National Assembly discussions, and both the President and the Democratic Party have mentioned a process of deliberation. Do you believe this part needs to be revised and that the supplementary investigative power must be retained?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: A few days ago, Representative Lee So-young, who plays a somewhat reformist role within the Democratic Party, expressed opposition to this. I think that was a very courageous act. I hope young lawmakers and legal experts in the Democratic Party will truly speak their minds on this occasion.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: And as mentioned earlier during the "Yeodamyadam" segment, there are rumors about the pro-Yoon faction, who could be called the former mainstream of the PPP and are also politicians with whom you ran the presidential election in the past. There are many reports of movements suggesting they should join hands with you, saying that you are young and good at politics, and that they should put past events behind them and team up again. How would you answer this question?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: I got along well with the "Yoon-haek-gwan" (core associates of Yoon Suk-yeol) lawmakers before Yoon Suk-yeol appeared. To list them, that includes Representative Kim Gi-hyeon, who worked closely with me as floor leader when I was party leader, and Representative Park Seong-min, who served as my chief of staff. However, it is true that we became somewhat estranged after the Yoon Suk-yeol administration took office because President Yoon went ahead recklessly. In my political career, I think like this: there are good people, bad people, nice people, and unpleasant people, but I hate getting involved with strange people. Recently, the people I am most wary of in politics are strange people. But the Yoon-haek-gwan lawmakers I was originally close to do not fall into the category of being strange.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Have you actually heard such things in private, even half-jokingly? Like, "Representative Lee, we should go together."

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: To be honest, they have been saying that for two years. But within that time, there was martial law, impeachment, and the recent situation of that party. I always tell them that for our Reform Party, moving toward the goals we set when we first founded the party is our priority.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: The next general election seems far away, but time flies. In the next general election, will you and the Reform Party lawmakers run under the name of the Reform Party, or as members of a reconstructed conservative party?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: We are always resolved to go forward under the name of the Reform Party without wavering. Even today, I am on my way up from Dongtan. To resolve civil complaints in Dongtan, especially regarding our transportation issues, I have joined the Strategy and Finance Committee, which oversees the Ministry of Economy and Finance, and next year I will join the Land, Infrastructure and Transport Committee. I believe the answers will emerge in the process of resolving these issues.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Since politics is a living organism, we never know what will happen.

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: When I meet PPP lawmakers who are close to me, they ask, "Representative Lee, can't we merge and join forces for the general election?" I tell them, "You can make up your mind and come over even tomorrow."

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: The PPP coming over to the Reform Party. Understood. By the way, what Representative Kwon Young-se said in a media interview today seems noteworthy: "Representative Jang Dong-hyeok must resign, and the issue of Representative Han Dong-hoon rejoining the party cannot happen before the party member bulletin board issue is resolved."

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: For people like me or Han Dong-hoon who ride the waves of issues, we talk every day. We just post something on Facebook and talk daily. But recently, seeing Representative Kwon Young-se targeting Representative Jang Dong-hyeok while also throwing a check at Han Dong-hoon, it sounds quite heavy. This is because he is someone who doesn't speak much usually. In particular, the post written by Representative Ahn Cheol-soo last time has been constantly talked about in Yeouido since it went up in the morning. People were saying the logical structure was so clean that it felt like Representative Ahn had spent a month or two crafting only that post, like a master carving a wooden bat.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Are you referring to the trial related to Daegu Mayor Choo Kyung-ho?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: Yes, the post he wrote about testifying and that experience. What Representative Ahn Cheol-soo experienced, and the post he wrote recently, perhaps yesterday, was about those who are on Han Dong-hoon's side rather than his own.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: The so-called pro-Han faction.

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: "Wreckers." He said those called "wreckers" caused him a lot of hurt. Since that included people who used to work for him in the past, he seems to have spoken with more confidence. You can see that Representative Ahn Cheol-soo made a very valid point. Just earlier, as Spokesperson Yoon Hee-seok walked out, I told him, "Keep it moderate." Those people are very famous in this field. I respect that they have a world they want to change and are moving in that direction, but think about it. Everyone will remember who came on broadcasts and celebrated while cursing Oh Se-hoon and Lee Jun-seok when the Myung Tae-kyun incident broke out. What I mean is, as I said earlier about not doing strange politics, the public will probably find out who goes on broadcasts with the mindset of "I must kill someone in this field" or "I must get rid of that person." But look at this. Even someone like Representative Kwon Young-se is pointing this out. Furthermore, how many times a year does Representative Ahn Cheol-soo release political messages? Honestly, for someone who usually just talks about science and technology to do this, he must be extremely angry.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Looking at the relationship between you and Representative Ahn Cheol-soo, it is quite interesting. In the past, you were competitors who ran against each other in Nowon.

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: Right. That was because he cut my nomination. He is also my friend's father-in-law.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: A friend's father-in-law. Does Representative Jang Dong-hyeok fall into the category of "strange politicians" among the categories you mentioned? Where does he fit among good or bad politicians?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: I have no choice but to say that Representative Jang Dong-hyeok is very strange based on what he is doing now. Why? Well, I think the public sentiment shown in the last election was clearly this: for the PPP, the reason the election didn't look like a defeat later on was because Mayor Oh Se-hoon was elected as Seoul Mayor. But in reality, it is true that they seemed to try not to nominate Mayor Oh Se-hoon. So, if they didn't nominate Mayor Oh, who were they trying to nominate? I don't know who that person was, but if they had run, they wouldn't have achieved that result, and without that result, he probably would have had to step down by now. So, he is leading this field from a very paradoxical position. I once said on a broadcast that his position is like that of a Holy Roman Emperor. The French philosopher Voltaire said that the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire, but it maintained its position and lasted a long time because of the interests of the feudal lords at the time. I think Representative Jang is standing in a similar position, but he seems to be starting something like a Crusade, pushing too strong a drive.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Continuing to attend rallies alleging election fraud alone.

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: It's a holy war, then. A Holy Roman Emperor is supposed to just maintain authority, but he is trying to build actual power. While it is human nature as a politician, I don't really understand it. But if you ask me, having bickered with former Representative Sohn Hak-kyu and experienced various things, looking at it coldly from Representative Jang Dong-hyeok's perspective, it is right not to step down. He doesn't need to step down on his own accord.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: What do you think of Representative Han Dong-hoon?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: Representative Han Dong-hoon won a big victory in Busan this time. But after the momentum of that big victory in Busan—which, for me in the Reform Party, was the momentum for founding the party along with the victory in Dongtan—it seems Representative Han wants to use it as momentum to rejoin the party. If so, shouldn't he stop hitting other people? In fact, many people's evaluation of candidate Han Dong-hoon changed before and after that election. Expectations have risen a lot, but looking at him now, he seems to be acting very aggressively, which is a bit surprising to me.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Currently, in the constituencies, there is the real estate issue. President Lee Jae-myung said while receiving briefing reports that he would gather public opinion regarding real estate issues. There are forecasts that some decision regarding the holding tax might come out around the end of this month, and the standard for high-value real estate might be around 3 billion won. It is anticipated that if someone holds real estate worth 3 billion won or more, the policy will move toward strengthening the holding tax. What does the Reform Party think about this, Representative Lee?

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: I believe that the tax system must also change with the times. If they raise the holding tax that much, are they going to abolish the transaction tax? I think those two should go hand in hand. For example, if they try to impose what is close to a punitive tax on owning a home worth 3 billion won or more, they should at least give the owner a chance to sell it and leave beforehand. That would mean deferring or lowering the transaction tax. Touching only the holding tax without doing that? That is probably among the elements most prohibited by the Constitution. There would also be the principle of prohibition of excess. On the other hand, it is discrimination in a way. For example, what is the difference between a wealthy stock owner having 5 billion won? The Democratic Party always says that real estate is unearned income, but then is stock earned labor income? That is how we have to look at it. Rather, looking at recent events, it is even showing that stocks can be moved more speculatively, but for the Democratic Party, it's not like they all received employee stock ownership plans; theirs is also investment income. It is the same for real estate and this as well. So, if the Democratic Party keeps moving the goalposts like this, trust in the tax administration itself will disappear, and then trust in the state will fall. Historically, many revolutions or overthrows of political systems occurred because of the tax system. Why did the American Revolution happen? Why did the Boston Tea Party happen? In the past, they revolted for that reason, but now voters judge through elections. I hope the Lee Jae-myung administration does not forget that.

▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Understood. It has been a while since we interviewed Reform Party Leader Lee Jun-seok, and as expected, we ran out of time. Thank you for speaking with us today.

▶ Lee Jun-seok / Reform Party Leader: Thank you.

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※ Please note: This article was translated by AI and may contain errors.