[Joo Young-jin's News Briefing]
When citing this interview, please credit the program name as 'SBS <Joo Young-jin's News Briefing>'. SBS holds the copyright.
■ Broadcast: SBS <Joo Young-jin's News Briefing> Monday – Friday (14:00 – 15:20)
■ Host: Anchor Joo Young-jin
■ Guest: Rep. Kwak Sang-eon, Democratic Party of Korea
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● Interview
Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party of Korea Lawmaker
"Politics is painful... sometimes you have to make choices that go against your convictions"
"The true essence of politics is serving others"
"Whenever political situations get tough, Roh is used like a shield"
"I question whether Roh Moo-hyun's politics still remains in the Democratic Party"
"Han Dong-hoon's arguments seem borrowed from Lee In-gyu's memoir"
"Moon cannot avoid a certain level of responsibility as Roh's defense attorney"
"Progressive media were especially harsh... I remember it all"
"I will pursue honest and upright politics for the public"
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▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: A little while ago, President Lee Jae-myung posted on X, mentioning that former President Roh Moo-hyun came to mind. Today, we are joined by Rep. Kwak Sang-eon of the Democratic Party of Korea, who is the son-in-law of the late former President Roh and represents Seoul's Jongno District, often called the top political constituency. Welcome.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Hello, I am Kwak Sang-eon. It has been a long time.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: It has been a while. I remember discussing the KEPCO progressive electricity billing issue with you on News Briefing back when you were working as a lawyer.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: That is right. At that time, litigation regarding the progressive electricity billing system was underway, and the anchor covered it so thoroughly and well that it was a huge help.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: I still remember that vividly. Now you have transformed into a politician and become a lawmaker representing Jongno, Seoul. Jongno was also once President Roh Moo-hyun's constituency.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: That was around 1997 or 1998, when he was elected in a by-election.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: I covered that election on the ground at the time.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: There are still quite a few people who remember those days.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Indeed. When meeting voters in your constituency, many probably bring up your father-in-law.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Even though 15 or nearly 20 years have passed since then, many people still talk about him.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: How does it feel to actually engage in politics, especially as a lawmaker for the Democratic Party? Do you feel glad that you entered politics? Have you ever wondered whether your father-in-law would have tried to stop you from entering politics if he were still here?
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: In fact, it has been over 20 years since I first appeared in the media, and I have appeared in political news for quite a long time. However, actually doing politics is an extremely agonizing task. It is not about making choices for yourself; depending on how choices are made—narrowly for the constituency, and broadly for the nation—the trajectory of many people's lives changes, not just mine.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: That is true.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Because of that, the time spent agonizing is very long. In particular, there are times when it conflicts with my personal convictions, or when I face moments where I must make a choice that leads to an outcome different from what I envisioned, which was truly painful. So there are many days when each day feels quite agonizing. My wife often tells me this: by looking at the frequency and intensity of my sleep-talking at night, she can tell how my day was.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: I see.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: She says that since being elected as a lawmaker, I seem to be suffering much more.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: You must be sleep-talking a lot without remembering it yourself.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Sometimes I even hear myself while sleeping.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: The weight of being a lawmaker in politics is immense. Yet, if I may say so, do you ever get the feeling that some people seem to practice politics quite easily?
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: On one hand, there are people who seem naturally suited for the political process and carrying out parliamentary duties, but I am not sure if that is the right approach. Because the fundamental essence of politics is serving others.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: That is right.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: In the past, when President Roh Moo-hyun told his followers not to enter politics, what he meant was that several among them were likely to practice selfish politics for their own sake, which is why he discouraged them. Ultimately, just like now, many politicians make choices for their own benefit, and I believe he advised them against entering politics in the sense of urging them not to make choices driven by self-interest.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Recently, during media interviews, aside from questions about Kwak Sang-eon the politician, you must receive a great deal of questions about President Roh Moo-hyun.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: I consider that my destiny.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Your destiny. President Roh Moo-hyun's name is being mentioned frequently again recently, and as mentioned earlier, President Lee Jae-myung posted on X that he misses President Roh, while many Democratic Party politicians speak of him. As a member of the Democratic Party and part of the ruling power, what thoughts cross your mind whenever President Roh is brought up? Depending on the issue, the context, and the person, it could vary, but fundamentally, what do you think?
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: When I meet the public, it seems the sentiment of mourning and remembering President Roh Moo-hyun is growing deeper. Since President Roh passed away in 2009, 17 years have already passed. During those 17 years, many things have changed. In the first few years after his passing, even those close to him turned their backs to the extent that they did not even visit Bongha Village where his gravesite is located. But as time passed and the political climate shifted, many people now pay tribute to him. On the other hand, whenever political circumstances become difficult, many politicians use him like a shield. Now that I have become a politician, won election to the National Assembly, and am serving as a lawmaker, there are times when I feel a deep sense of disillusionment. While they invoke President Roh's name and speak of longing for him, their actual actions and decisions are often the complete opposite. My understanding of President Roh is that, at the very least, he did not practice politics for personal gain. He always endeavored to look one step ahead for our community. Although he could not fully realize everything, I believe he constantly self-reflected and engaged in the process of persuading others to achieve that. Yet, every day I find myself questioning whether Roh's brand of politics still remains in Korean politics, and especially within the Democratic Party where I currently belong, to the extent that justifies invoking his name so frequently.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Former spokesperson Yoon Tae-young, or author Yoon Tae-young, recently published a biography of Roh Moo-hyun and said in a media interview that he hopes people will 'now let President Roh go' and that he should be evaluated objectively as a president of the Republic of Korea rather than as a president belonging to a particular camp. Do you agree with this, Rep. Kwak?
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: I strongly agree with those remarks, and that is also my hope. I am not sure whether that wish will come true, because quite some time has passed since such remarks were first made.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Still, the situation persists.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: As time passes, many politicians continue to drag out things that President Roh never even said just to represent their own positions at every turn.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: In what year did you get married, Rep. Kwak?
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: I got married in February 2003.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Around the time President Roh Moo-hyun was inaugurated.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Yes, about 10 days before his inauguration.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Right, I remember that. It was quite a topic of discussion back then. Since then, you had many opportunities to see President Roh. Did you ever share your thoughts, intentions, or aspirations about politics with him? Did he ever tell you, 'Son-in-law Kwak, I hope you don't enter politics either'?
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: He passed away without us ever having time to talk about such things. I got married in 2003 during his term. To be honest, I viewed him much more as a president than as a father-in-law. Right after the wedding and our honeymoon, he was inaugurated. Once he took office, because he was a public figure—and the most important public figure at that—I felt strongly that I should not cause trouble or influence his decisions. In trying to faithfully fulfill that role, I was not able to have such conversations. After he stepped down, he immediately faced an investigation under the Lee Myung-bak administration, and following that investigation, everyone close to him underwent immense hardship. We had to defend against those hardships, and there were many such matters to handle. Furthermore, many events unfolded during the decade or so following his passing. So I think I spent a long time reflecting on the present and sorting through the past.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: You have broached a difficult topic. Independent lawmaker Han Dong-hoon recently continued to publicly point out issues via social media regarding the prosecutorial investigation at the time, arguing, 'Isn't it true that money was received?' You also reacted to that, but afterward, it seemed you exercised restraint compared to the past. What were your thoughts when you heard that, and what led to your reaction? It seemed you asked him to present evidence if he had any.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Usually, when someone raises an issue or brings up that subject matter again, it is often because they possess something additional. In the case of Rep. Han Dong-hoon, a considerable amount of time had passed, and while there had been various talks in the meantime, there had been no direct occasion for Rep. Han to speak that way recently. Yet, with no apparent trigger, right before Kim Seung-won became Minister of Justice, he brought out new evidence and utilized it as political material again. Seeing that made me wonder, 'Does he have something this time?' which prompted my question. Typically, someone who brings up such matters as fodder for political strife possesses additional evidence. However, I am in a position where I already know practically everything about the actual facts of that case from the past, and since the elder passed away, I have organized a great deal of it, so I know most of it. Meanwhile, what was painful was that members of the public—whether supporters of the Democratic Party or opponents—frequently launched personal attacks against me. In some cases I clarified matters, and in other cases I remained silent. While I do not know how much detail I must share for it to be accepted as fact, personally, I was not actually involved in the investigation circumstances or the events leading to the investigation at that time. I was not involved, but sometimes I almost wish I had been.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: You wish you had been? What do you mean by that?
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: What I mean is, if one is to be criticized, one should have done something deserving of criticism; but I never did anything that warranted criticism. Another reason I do not know the story in full detail is precisely because I was not involved. However, the basis for Rep. Han Dong-hoon's claims appears to rely on the memoir of Lee In-gyu, former head of the Central Investigation Department who led the investigation at the time and is now an attorney. I have read Lee In-gyu's entire memoir. I did not read it just once, but multiple times. That book is written in such detail that it looks as though he took the entire investigation records from that time out with him. If one summarizes the major arguments in attorney Lee In-gyu's memoir into three points—since these are the exact expressions he used—they address why President Roh Moo-hyun ended up passing away. The book's subtitle is 'Who Killed Roh Moo-hyun?' He cites three reasons: first, that 'Moon Jae-in, who served as defense counsel, was incompetent'; second, that 'the progressive camp and progressive media were cruel and criticized him mercilessly'; and third, he presupposes that 'President Roh Moo-hyun himself was corrupt.' Rep. Han Dong-hoon appears to have borrowed that view wholesale, assuming he has no additional evidence.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Naturally, you did not agree with that view in the past.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Among the three points, there are aspects I can agree with. In fact, as defense counsel at the time—there were many cases, and attorney Moon Jae-in was the one who directly defended President Roh. As a lawyer, if a case one defended ends in a tragic outcome, bearing a certain degree of responsibility is undeniably unavoidable. Furthermore, according to the testimony of former Central Investigation Department chief Lee In-gyu, he stated that attorney Moon did not submit defense briefs or make phone calls, meaning he did not consult on the investigation. If that is true, he could bear that degree of responsibility.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: You feel that former President Moon, as defense attorney at the time, could have been a bit more diligent...
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Diligence can take various forms. Since it ended in a tragic event as a result, I think that aspect is plausible. Second, the media at the time, particularly the progressive media, were indeed harsh. They were actually far more harsh, and I remember every bit of that.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: To the point where President Roh even pleaded, 'Please abandon me.' Hearing the details of the situation back then has made time fly. We will have to invite you back next time.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Let us do that.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Even so, regarding your aspirations as a politician, you recently drew attention within the Democratic Party by stating your conviction regarding appearances on Kim Eo-jun's show, declaring that you would no longer do such interviews. In about 30 seconds, what kind of politician do you aspire to become?
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: To engage in politics, one must fulfill the role of a politician, and to fulfill that role, one needs a certain position. However, I have absolutely no desire to covet positions. If I had coveted positions, I would have done so long ago. I want to perform the duties given to me well. Among them, now that I have actually become a lawmaker, actively participating in politics and exercising influence, I see that many political decisions are made for personal benefit. The reason political disputes arise right now is often because people package their personal interests as though they were in the national interest. I intend not to do that. Instead, I want to pursue politics that is honest and upright before the public.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Do you receive interview requests from Kim Eo-jun's show?
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: I stated long ago that I would not appear on Kim Eo-jun's show. The reason I said so is that if it were for my short-term, personal gain, all I would have to do is ride along, even if it exercises improper political influence. If I hopped on board, they would actually welcome it.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: That might have been the easier path.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Because I chose not to do that, and in fact, aren't many side effects becoming evident right now?
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Understood. Next time we invite you, I will be sure to ask how the Democratic Party's approval ratings can be raised, and what policy issues Rep. Kwak has recently been focusing on.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Thank you.
▷ Joo Young-jin / Anchor: Thank you for speaking with us today.
▶ Kwak Sang-eon / Democratic Party Lawmaker: Thank you.
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