On August 18, the day after the Democratic Party of Korea elected its new leader, I interviewed former Secretary General of the National Assembly Yoo In-tae. Regarding President Lee Jae-myung's golf meeting with senior lawmakers of the People Power Party, former Secretary General Yoo called it "a good thing" and said there should be more opportunities—whether over golf or drinks—to talk candidly. At the same time, Yoo emphasized that the president must make his stance clear on constitutional revision and the issue of dropping indictments.
We also looked back at the Democratic Party's national convention process. We heard his outlook on whether the conflict between the pro-Lee Jae-myung faction and the pro-Jung Chung-rae faction would enter a phase of reconciliation, as well as future prospects. Although some expressions may sound somewhat rough depending on how you view them, we ask for your understanding of former Secretary General Yoo In-tae's style. There is no doubt that he is an elder statesman who wishes for the Democratic Party administration to succeed more than anyone else. Former Secretary General Yoo's remarks actually come across more vividly when watched on video. We also recommend watching the video on SBS YouTube's "Discovery of Knowledge."
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Q. You also anticipated candidate Kim Min-seok's victory, didn't you, Secretary General?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
That's right. If the candidate backed by a president who still has nearly four years left in his term loses, what would happen to that party?
Q. Former representative Jung Chung-rae was quite formidable as well.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
The Blue House must have been quite flustered watching this national convention. The president essentially went beyond just picking him and helped him afterwards, so they wouldn't have expected Jung to catch up so formidably... But nevertheless, since it is a single-leader system rather than a collective leadership system now, the leader's authority is incomparably powerful compared to supreme council members. In any case, it is fortunate that candidate Kim Min-seok won.
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
Is it fortunate from your perspective as well, Secretary General?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
It is fortunate. With so much time left in the president's term, what would we do if the guy who said 'administrations are short-lived' had won?
Q. You must have watched leader Kim Min-seok for a long time. Did you ever think the era of leader Kim Min-seok would open?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
I know him all too well. I never imagined it at all. Old-timers like us who have been in politics for quite a while said, "There's really no one to vote for," and "How did those guys even come out as candidates for party leader?" They presented two people who would have been unimaginable in the past and forced people to vote for them.
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
Why aren't you even mentioning Lawmaker Song Young-gil?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
He didn't run to actually win this time, did he?
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
Then why did he run?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
He gained a lot of popularity this time, didn't he? He ran to build some popularity.
Q. You called yourself an old-timer. What fell short in the eyes of that old-timer?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Why was the National Assembly created in the first place? Isn't it to compromise with each other? To mediate differences. Those aren't people who would mediate or compromise. Isn't former representative Jung Chung-rae someone who only knows how to charge forward?
For example, floor leaders—in the past, they were called floor whips. In fact, politicians usually gain the trust of fellow lawmakers by serving as floor leader once. That is how you build an internal base among those closest to you. Both of the guys who ran this time are people who wouldn't get votes if they ran for floor leader. They have little popularity or trust among lawmakers. When guys like that, in terms of leadership and various aspects, all ran for party leader, a lot of people said, "There's really no one to vote for."
Q. Where can we find the cause of former representative Jung Chung-rae's defeat?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
He shouldn't have run in the first place. Doing it once was enough, and the Blue House gave some signals, didn't it? If so, he should have folded this time. Why run again... Still, by running and putting up such a good fight this time, Jung Chung-rae grew a lot politically.
Q. Did it show that former representative Jung Chung-rae possesses this much strength?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
It wasn't his own strength. Jung Chung-rae is the pick of Kim Ou-joon and Rhyu Si-min. Rather than Jung Chung-rae's own strength, it should be seen as the strength of Kim Ou-joon and Rhyu Si-min being demonstrated this time. He is someone who believes Ddanzi Ilbo is the barometer of public sentiment, so that's where the strength comes from.
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
Some people attribute former representative Jung Chung-rae's loss to writer Rhyu Si-min.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
He came this far thanks to Rhyu Si-min... In the end, writer Rhyu Si-min going too far with things like the "inevitable failure theory of the Lee Jae-myung administration" may have been a negative factor in gaining votes. But if Kim Ou-joon and Rhyu Si-min hadn't backed him, could Jung Chung-rae have become the leader of that faction? They probably pushed him because they had no choice, since there was no one else. The Blue House was trying to put forward Kim Min-seok, and they just couldn't stand watching that happen. So I view this fight as a clash between President Lee Jae-myung and the so-called Ddanzi Ilbo.
Q. Leader Kim Min-seok mentioned the "ABC Plan" during his acceptance speech. Was that aimed at writer Rhyu Si-min?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
That's right. In Rhyu Si-min's eyes, Kim Min-seok must have been a typical "B." It should be seen as a counterattack against being treated as the type of person driven only by self-interest without convictions or anything.
Q. As an elder of the Democratic Party, you must have felt quite uncomfortable watching this national convention process.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Oh, well... It was pathetic. But fighting like that isn't particularly unprecedented. Even in the past, during the February 8 national convention (in 2015)...
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
Back then, that ultimately led to the party splitting. Could this conflict escalate to an explosive situation like that this time?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
It won't. There's no way it will split.
Q. It doesn't seem like the party will split, but I'm not sure if the party will really proceed peacefully.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Of course, they will bicker inside. They will bicker, but... I think going forward, it depends on what the Blue House does.
Q. You mean sealing the party's internal conflict depends on the Blue House?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
I believe a major factor behind the recent decline in President Lee Jae-myung's approval rating is the issue of revising the Criminal Procedure Act. Initially, President Lee Jae-myung thought so, the Minister of Justice thought so, and Leader Kim Min-seok was originally in favor of retaining the supplementary investigative authority. But Jung Chung-rae, who was party leader at the time, posted things like "Complete abolition of supplementary investigative authority." Since persisting with retaining supplementary investigative authority would have meant losing to Jung Chung-rae at the national convention, they had no choice but to say "There is no government proposal" and "We have never opposed amending the criminal law regarding supplementary investigative authority," which led to its passage.
However, from the president's perspective now, he would probably think, "If we had followed my original intention, the approval rating wouldn't have dropped like this, but because of Jung Chung-rae, it inevitably ended up this way." With plenty of time left in his term, I wonder if the president might move toward restoring "supplementary investigative authority."
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
Is there a way, though? Isn't it already settled?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
They could just propose revising it again.
Q. Do you think the president should attempt to revise the Criminal Procedure Act again?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
I'm not saying this based on any insider information. But with approval ratings having fallen like this, and real estate not being an easy issue to solve, if the president wants the easiest way to rebound approval ratings, public opinion in favor of retaining supplementary investigative authority is much higher. Doesn't that align closely with public sentiment? So I'm saying it's an approach where one could expect approval ratings to rise even a little by re-amending it.
Q. If that happens, the pro-Jung Chung-rae faction won't be able to accept it, will they?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Setting other things aside, extreme chaos would ensue if that happens—to the point where the Democratic Party could split. What that side is desperate about is prosecution reform. Anyway, I think that will remain a constant temptation for President Lee Jae-myung. Since approval ratings are dropping like that, he would naturally want to boost them somehow. If approval ratings drop, an early lame-duck phase will follow.
For instance, issues like the tax system can be sufficiently discussed, deliberated, and agreed upon within the party. Normally, things should roll along smoothly, unless the president brings up truly sensitive issues like the revision of the Criminal Procedure Act first.
Q. With Kim Min-seok becoming party leader this time, though much time remains, hasn't he genuinely become the strongest contender for the next presidential election within the Democratic Party?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
I don't see it that way. The presidential election is nearly four years away, and among those considered strong or leading contenders early on, hardly anyone ever made it all the way to becoming the candidate.
There was a time when former UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon dominated, a period when former Prime Minister Lee Nak-yon dominated, and former representative Kim Moo-sung led in first place for quite a while... Among those who topped the polls back then, none became the final candidate.
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
Still, in terms of political grammar, isn't he a strong presidential contender?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
That's why I'm saying "Now is not the time to talk about that." In our political climate, if your name is mentioned in such discussions right now, you won't even become a candidate.
Q. The media will naturally expect leader Kim Min-seok to dream of the next presidency, meaning at some point he will have to voice different opinions from the president and take a stand against him. People are curious about when that point will be.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
The party leader's term is two years, isn't it? But the presidential election is about three years and six months away. So as the leader who will oversee the general election, there are issues of prosecution reform, the Criminal Procedure Act, and the issue of dropping indictments... Regarding dropping indictments, he said he made principled remarks even before becoming leader, but it generally seems he made those remarks after reading the president's intentions...
I think President Lee Jae-myung should let go of lingering hopes about dropping indictments... As this administration carries out various policies going forward, (it won't help). If approval ratings plummet, power will drain that much faster. I hope he lets go of that lingering attachment, including the one regarding dropping indictments.
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
You naturally view the party as moving that way because the president has the will to drop indictments, right?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
At one point, they formed a group of about 100 lawmakers for dropping indictments, which Rhyu Si-min called crazy. They argue that they suffered immense injustice and ask why they should even stand trial when it can just be dismissed... But if many citizens view the method of dropping them as unfair, it could deal a fairly fatal blow to the administration.
Q. As an elder of the Democratic Party, do you have any words of advice for new party leader Kim Min-seok?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Party leader Kim Min-seok said something bizarre again. Whatever it is, that English acronym ABC is bizarre, and the term "creative horizontal relationship" is something strange I've never heard before... But because that horizontal relationship was displayed in the process of him getting elected, it might be difficult for him to say uncomfortable things to the Blue House after becoming leader. Nevertheless, if things start drifting away from public sentiment, I believe the party must speak boldly to the Blue House. I think that is truly a creative horizontal relationship.
Q. From the start, the structure makes it hard to speak frankly to the Blue House, but he must still do so?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
That way, both the president and the party can survive. But the difficult part is that he needs to insist that some supplementary investigative authority should remain, even if the Blue House wants to abolish it... Right now, public sentiment wants it retained. If he conveys that public sentiment, an uproar will erupt from within the party, so it won't be easy. Nonetheless, the party must play such a role. It must serve as a channel to convey public sentiment.
Q. If a Seoul mayoral by-election takes place next year, leader Kim Min-seok has staked his own vote of confidence on the outcome of that election.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
We'll have to see when next year comes. For now, because it looks difficult then... Hardly anyone has ever kept such a promise after making it. Former President Roh Tae-woo said he would undergo an interim evaluation if elected and didn't do it, and there are many such cases. We'll only know when the time comes.
Q. How do you view former representative Jung Chung-rae as a presidential contender for the Democratic Party?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Well, everyone has dreams. Anyone is free to dream. Who could criticize that?
Q. Do you have any words of advice for former representative Jung Chung-rae as well?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Until now, it has been rushing and charging forward... But I'd like to tell him to reflect more calmly on what a democratic republic is, recognizing that the National Assembly and this country are a democratic republic.
Q. With Lawmaker Choi Min-hee becoming senior supreme council member, there is curiosity about what the atmosphere of Supreme Council meetings will be like and what stance Lawmaker Choi Min-hee will take.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Because it's a single-leader system, supreme council members cannot be compared to the leader. If mediation fails, they can just put it to a vote. So on most issues, she will likely cooperate and assist... There is no official position called senior supreme council member. She is just one of the supreme council members. She simply finished in first place, so what difference is there other than sitting in a front seat closer to the leader? The Supreme Council consists of nine members, and including the leader and floor leader, she is just one-ninth. The term senior supreme council member doesn't even exist in the party constitution and regulations.
Q. You mentioned you have also known Lawmaker Choi Min-hee for a long time.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Choi Min-hee is originally someone I've known very well since long ago. You know how politicians say they welcome any news coverage except obituaries? I think this was proven true this time. Why did she become such a public nuisance... During this national convention process, people thought, "She wasn't like that originally, why did she change like that?" Yet she came in first place, goodness gracious.
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
Blocking cameras and various controversies occurred.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Even after blocking cameras and raising all sorts of hell, she still came in first place. So it feels like it sets a very bad example, as if "being noisy is good."
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
What should Lawmaker Choi Min-hee do now?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Now that the election is over, I want to tell her to come to her senses.
Q. It has been reported that the president discussed constitutional revision and other matters while playing golf with senior opposition lawmakers. How do you view this, Secretary General?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
That's a good thing. In fact, that's how it should be. To talk candidly, it doesn't have to be golf; having drinks together is good too... Having served as Senior Secretary for Political Affairs myself, former President Roh Moo-hyun also really wanted to do that. But even when invited, no one came. In our current political climate, they probably need to get permission from their party leader.
Q. The president who played golf and the opposition lawmakers who accepted the golf invitation are both facing criticism from their respective hard-line supporter bases.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Is that something to criticize? During the military dictatorship, there were so-called "sakura" (fake opposition figures). The intelligence agency did a lot of that. Back then, there were opposition lawmakers who received various benefits and money, pretended otherwise, and acted as spies. Today, I believe things like this should be encouraged.
Q. You mean the president should meet with opposition lawmakers more often?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Of course. The president should meet them more, and when the president asks to meet, opposition lawmakers should meet and confidently make suggestions. For example, issues like real estate should be discussed candidly in such settings, and I hope our political culture fosters more of these gatherings. Criticizing someone by hard-line supporters just for meeting the president is the problem with this culture.
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
The criticism is that the president is trying to use constitutional amendment as a card to shift the political landscape, and the opposition lawmakers played along.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
What shift in the political landscape... Isn't this an environment where constitutional amendment cannot happen without bipartisan agreement?
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
Constitutional amendment cannot even serve as a card to shift the political landscape?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Of course not.
Q. When serving former President Roh Moo-hyun as Senior Secretary for Political Affairs, did you try to invite opposition lawmakers but it didn't work out?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
At the time, the troop deployment to Iraq was the biggest pending issue. So to talk candidly, we invited lawmakers from the National Defense Committee and the Foreign Affairs and Unification Committee to a dinner at the Blue House. Only about two or three showed up. The rest did not recognize then-President Roh Moo-hyun as president at the time. Even when the president publicly invited standing committee members for dinner, most avoided it. So meeting individually, no matter how much one wanted to, was completely out of the question.
Reporter Jeong Yu-mi:
So you mean we should do more of this now and our political culture needs to change.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
That's right. And beyond that, politicians who are dragged around only by hard-line supporters on either side truly have no future.
Q. The president mentioned a multi-term or consecutive-term system. Combined with previous remarks by National Assembly Speaker Cho Jeong-sik, suspicions are arising: "Is he really trying to do it himself?"
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
What era are we living in now? Who would even dream of that—a constitutional amendment for his own consecutive terms? In principle, for the sake of this country and its future, power-sharing constitutional revision should take place. I expect remarks will come from his own mouth, such as "I have no intention whatsoever of serving consecutive terms" and "I believe this must be done for the future of this country."
Q. The opposition party has also been demanding that he say directly from his own mouth that there will be no consecutive terms.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
He might think right now that saying such a thing wounds his pride, thinking, "Why should I address such nonsense?" Nonetheless, I believe he must say it. And I believe he will. I don't think that poses any real controversy.
Q. You mean that once the president states from his own mouth that there will be no consecutive terms, the issue will be settled.
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
Yes. I view this constitutional amendment as being interlinked with the electoral system. We must change the electoral system and then pursue constitutional revision. Although talk of constitutional revision comes up first now, proposing a power-sharing presidential system... Sharing more power with a parliament like the current one? The public likely won't support that much. Sharing significant presidential power with this National Assembly that does nothing but fight every day and knows nothing of compromise? Would our citizens accept that?
I have also long held the position that we should amend the constitution toward a power-sharing presidential system, but that must go hand in hand with the electoral system. I believe it must be done while overhauling the electoral system.
Q. How do you think real estate tax reform should be handled?
Former Secretary General Yoo In-tae:
It's not my area of expertise... In principle, since I was first elected to the National Assembly over thirty years ago, "raising property holding taxes and lowering transaction taxes" has been a long-standing task. If the direction now is to raise holding taxes and lower transaction taxes like this, I think that is what we ought to do. That is my personal view.
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